As foreign interference allegations stack up, top intelligence officials tell MPs elections were ‘legitimate’

As reports of alleged Chinese interference in the last two federal elections stack up, a panel of Canada’s highest-ranking intelligence officials told MPs that while they understand Canadians’ concerns about foreign meddling, they should be assured that “the last two federal elections were fair and legitimate.”

That’s how Prime Minister Justin Trudeau’s National Security and Intelligence Advisor Jody Thomas put it during her testimony before the Procedure and House Affairs Committee (PROC) studying foreign election interference.

She said that while various federal agencies tasked with detecting, deterring and countering foreign interference have acknowledged that “foreign interference has been attempted,” the government is taking “concrete steps” to strengthen Canada’s institutions and ensure those responsible face consequences.

Appearing alongside Thomas were foreign affairs associate deputy minister Cindy Termorshuizen, and public safety deputy minister Shawn Tupper, who confirmed that, despite all that’s been reported, the RCMP is not investigating any of the interference allegations stemming from the 2021 campaign.

“The RCMP form a critical part of the team of people who assess activities during elections. They were aware of the information that was brought forward, they have looked at that information and have concluded that they will not pursue a criminal investigation,” he said.

Currently before the committee are a handful of members of the Security and Intelligence Threats to Elections (SITE) Task Force are appearing, including CSIS director general of intelligence assessments Adam Fisher, RCMP executive director of intelligence and international policing Adriana Poloz, and the Communication Security Establishment’s (CSE) deputy chief of signals intelligence, Alia Tayyeb.

While these officials are being prodded by members of Parliament for information about what they knew about attempts by China to meddle in and influence Canada’s democratic process, given the meeting is public and the issue concerns highly sensitive information, their responses have been light in detail or specifics, citing obligations to protect classified information.

“We must also carefully consider that … in some cases publicly disclosing intelligence on foreign state-specific attempts to interfere may ultimately play into their hands, including by potentially affecting outcomes of electoral processes and creating confusion,” Thomas said. 

Over the last several years, Canadian security agencies have been warning governments and citizens of increasingly sophisticated efforts from foreign states to interfere in Canadian affairs, though Wednesday’s testimony comes amid a few months of media reports, including those citing unnamed CSIS sources, that raised questions around specific alleged attempts to meddle in the 2019 and 2021 elections.

For example, The Globe and Mail has reported that China used a “sophisticated strategy” to defeat Conservative politicians considered unfriendly to Beijing while attempting to get the Liberals re-elected in 2021, an effort defeated former Conservative MP Kenny Chiu told CTV News he thinks he was a target of.

Global News has reported that China allegedly interfered in the 2019 campaigns of some candidates, including Liberal Han Dong who the news outlet reported CSIS believed was a “witting affiliate” of Chinese influence networks, and that the spy agency told the Prime Minister’s Office to rescind his nomination. Dong has strongly denied these claims, and CTV News has not independently verified either outlets’ reporting.

On Wednesday, Thomas called the leaks “very concerning” and condemned those leaking information as jeopardizing Canada’s national security and putting employees and those subject to investigations “at unnecessary risk.”

She said she would not speculate on the motivations of the leaks, nor would she comment on the accuracy of the reports containing them.

“I’m not going to comment on information that was inappropriately obtained,” she said. 

Trudeau has also sought to cast doubt on some of what’s been reported—including that CSIS would provide advice to the prime minister on a political issue—while questioning the claims’ impacts on Canadians’ confidence in democratic institutions. He has also repeatedly pointed to assurances from SITE, an election interference monitoring body that has offered assurances that “the integrity of our elections was not compromised.”

“National security agencies saw attempts at foreign interference, but not enough to have met the threshold of impacting electoral integrity,” reads the Critical Election Incident Public Protocol’s report into the 2021 campaign, released Tuesday.

In an interview ahead of the hearing with CTV News’ chief political correspondent Vassy Kapelos, Public Safety Minister Marco Mendicino said the Liberals are “eyes wide open about the fact that foreign interference does present a challenge to our democracy,” and that it’s “critically important” that Canadians are united in recognizing the threats countries like China pose.

In a statement sent to CTV News on Wednesday, China’s embassy in Ottawa denied attempting to interfere in Canadian elections, calling the claims “purely baseless and defamatory,” and alleging media outlets have been “seriously misleading the public.”

“China has always been firmly against any attempts to interfere in other countries’ domestic affairs,” the embassy said. “We are not interested in meddling with Canada’s internal affairs, nor have we ever tried to do so.” 

NDP PUSHING FOR NATIONAL PUBLIC INQUIRY

So far, Trudeau has resisted calls from the opposition parties for a public inquiry amid increasing demands for the federal government to be transparent about what top elections integrity bodies and security agencies knew about allegations that specific MPs or candidates were targeted by China.

During Wednesday’s hearing, the NDP gave notice of intent to move a motion asking for a national public inquiry to be launched into allegations of foreign interference in Canada’s democracy, with the power to compel national security documents and call key government and political figures to testify.

The New Democrats are taking the position that, as more reports emerge, the parliamentary committee is not the most appropriate venue to continue this investigation.

“When reports like these come out, people don’t want elected officials to score political points—they want solutions that protect our democracy,” said NDP MP and committee member Peter Julian in a statement. “To have the utmost confidence in our system, there must be a thorough, transparent and independent investigation into all instances of alleged interference in the election.”

Ahead of the meeting, Conservative Leader Pierre Poilievre told reporters that the Conservatives will be looking to amend the NDP proposal once it comes up for consideration to ensure the parliamentary committee work continues alongside the striking of an inquiry, and that the individual heading the “independent” inquiry be unanimously selected by all recognized parties in the House of Commons.

“It has to be public. We can’t simply bury it behind closed doors and have it in secret while Canadians are left in the dark, potentially with another election interfered in before the results of the commission come out,” Poilievre said. “The results of the Commission and the regular testimony must be public.”

The proposal will come to a vote during the PROC’s meeting on Thursday. 

Having the testimony held in public would limit the amount of information officials would be able to provide, witnesses cautioned on Wednesday.

Differing views have emerged among Canada’ intelligence community on whether an independent public inquiry or a probe by the top-secret and multi-party National Security and Intelligence Committee of Parliamentarians (NSICOP) would be best to get to the bottom of the various reports, in an effort to fully assess the foreign meddling allegations and any potential impact on Canada’s democratic institutions. 

Trudeau told reporters earlier this week that, in addition to the ongoing work of PROC, he’s “hopeful” that NSICOP embarks on a study into how to continue to strengthen Canada’s electoral systems and guard against interference, which has recently been noted coming from both foreign and domestic actors. 

“Canadians do want to hear directly from independent experts on the safety, the stability, the security of our elections and of our democratic processes despite the ongoing attempts at interference,” Trudeau said. “It is extremely important… that Canadians see that this is open, transparent, non-partisan, independent. Because we’re all concerned and worried about our elections’ integrity. That’s why we have put in place mechanisms, why we continue to see hearings on this.”

Richard Fadden, a former CSIS director and national security adviser to the prime minister, told CTV News earlier this week that there are precedents in Canada for commissions of inquiry to be able to receive classified information.

Given the work the Public Order Emergency Commission has just completed under Justice Paul Rouleau, Fadden said he is in favour of that more objective approach, noting that what’s at stake is Canadians’ confidence in the integrity of this country’s electoral system.

Former CSIS director Ward Elcock thinks NSCIOP would be better suited than a public inquiry to take this work on, while noting that alongside this effort, the government also needs to shake the perception that it hasn’t done anything with the information that’s been made public. 

For now, the matter is primarily before PROC, which has a mandate to review and report on the election of members to the House of Commons, and has been studying the issue of foreign election interference since November.

Wednesday’s meeting and its stacked witness list is the result of MPs unanimously voting to expand its study to cover the last two federal elections and call additional cabinet ministers and federal security and elections officials to testify, given the recent reporting and opposition MPs increasing concerns about the Liberal government’s transparency surrounding potential foreign meddling.

Calls continue to further extend the committee’s witness list to include Trudeau, his chief of staff Katie Telford, and the author of the 2021 report Morris Rosenberg.

“At what point did the prime minister know? I think we need to ask these questions, and ask them to him as well,” said Bloc Quebecois Leader Yves-Francois Blanchet in French during a scrum on Parliament Hill ahead of Wednesday’s meeting.